The problem with quoting second hand sources and heresay is that it is so often very difficult if not impossible to verify the accuracy of the source.
The other issue to remember is that while You, Laura Amota and the others who went to Charlotte Goiar’s yahoo forum viewed the forum as a support forum. It was not and is not. The function of the forum was to formulate through discussion a method by which the concept of Harry Benjamin Syndrome could best be promoted. To explore where the boundaries of it’s definition should be drawn. As such it was a private place and some views would necessarily move to extremes before they matured and became more moderate.

A few people joined and made suggestions that “transgender lifestyle” behaviour should be included. Since the whole concept of Harry Benjamin Syndrome was to distance transgender from the HBS definition; the membership were vehement in their rejection. Many of the forum members had bad experiences whithin TG forums and wanted to eliminate any hint of transgender lifestyle from the forum.

Try raising the issue of HBS on many of the “so called” TG support forums and see what kind of a reception you get however polite curteous and well informed you may have been and sit back and watch while the aggressive verbal attacks begin. Even if you do not mention HBS by name but talk in those terms, the reaction is hostile in the extreme.

One of the “visitors” cross posted to the playground some things that were said in private and meant for the ears of yahoo forum members only. This behaviour was totally against forum policy and but seemed to be not only condoned but encouraged by Laura.

As someone who has professional qualifications in the area of psychology I am aware that there are some glaring differences in the psychological thought processes of those who identify transgender and others who many in my profession group together with transgender but whom I believe have no business being placed within this group of people. My experience in the field shows that this small group are motivated by something quite unlike transgender. It is the practise of therapists working in this field to use six distinctly different groups for GID There is growing evidence that a quite different and separate group should be established. Whether that group should be called Harry Benjamin Syndrome or not remains to be seen.
However to close, the very concept that a person however they may self identify should be allowed to be legally female while still having male genitalia is in my view not an option. To use the unfortunate plight of those female born who identify as male where surgical options are inadequate and quite dangerous with a poor outcome as an excuse or justifcation is grotesque.

By the way, I ceased to practise in this field so I no longer use my acreditations.

How’s the AMV doing?

Oh, and the reason I’m not giving out her name is I respect her too much to have her get hate mail from some of the AH HBS people on this planet. I feel great about what she said to me today. It’s enough to have someone of her stature to validate my findings. I can just sit back an watch some of you make fools of yourself.

I have to take a partly oppositional stance here on the Harry Benjamin Syndrome thing. Yes, the term is not yet recognized by any medical professional body, but the concept itself is not “made up.” I take no issue with the fact that there is a medical condition in which a person’s neurology, which is determined prenatally, is incongruent with other anatomical markers of sex. This can only be intelligible as an intersex condition. I also understand the resistance of the established intersex community to this idea. They have their own advocacy agenda, and there is a significant difference in what traditionally intersex and transsexual people experience at the hands of medical authorities. I agree wholeheartedly with this statement from harrybenjaminsyndrome-info.org:

“Harry Benjamin’s Syndrome is a neurologically induced intersex condition and as such must be classified as an intersex condition along with other intersex conditions, and not among mental disorders. Should Harry Benjamin’s Syndrome be denied an intersex classification then it should be classified along other rare medical conditions not related to any mental disorder.”

There is so much truth in this document – I can’t emphasize this enough. The positive change that would result from recognizing this as a medical condition, and especially continuing to develop pre-puberty treatment protocols, would be a blessing beyond measure. It’s a damn shame that it’s polluted with fundamentalism, which will set back the progress it otherwise represents.

As Laura demonstrates, this totally subjective, political infighting is doing real damage to the cause of advancing medical knowledge that could help everyone.

After reading the SOC from harrybenjaminsyndrome-info.org – I think I get it now. These folks want to return to the days when people had to jump through the hoops of the gender identity clinic gatekeepers, in return for which this quite authentic intersex condition will be recognized as such. They are hoping for the same sort of backroom deal we just witnessed with Barney Frank tossing the trans community under the bus, only the party tossed under the bus will be everyone who doesn’t conform to this exceptionally narrow treatment protocol for the condition formerly known as GID. Do I have it about right?

“HBS, then, is concerned with altering one’s physical sex to match one’s brain sex; it is about recognizing and respecting gender norms.”

“Most adamantly it must not be confused with displays of modern day gender-variant expressions.”

Then there’s this gem:

“Unless one has had Sex Affirmation Surgery (SAS), birth certificates should be neither permanently changed nor temporarily amended. That would be a contradiction of facts and lead to societal and legal confusion. Birth certificates should reflect the actual physical sex of an individual, not the attitude or presentation of a personality.”

This, in particular, is simply enraging. SAS is defined in this same document as ” the primary surgical removal/alteration/reconstruction of genitals/sex organs to match those of the affirmed sex.” They are therefore recommending that FtM people shouldn’t be able to correct vital identity documents unless/until they submit to the completely unsatisfactory surgical procedures that are currently available.

This all reminds me of one of the last comments on a thread over at Bilerico:

“I like and are comfortable with the two sex system that exists in modern society (the last 2500 years)
i fit into it just fine and have no issues with it.
why should i change something that has worked for me?”

Maybe, my dear, because it causes unspeakable harm to other people? Maybe because equality and human rights for *everyone* are not about what works for you?

I know people who are transexual that also use TG as a term to identify themselves, that’s their right as long as they don’t use it as mine and that’s all most of us want others to understand.
It’s not about dividing, it’s about celebrating each other as we are, as we identify. It’s about educating others that there are different identities.
I know when I do workshops I’m clear on the many differences because it’s important.

Respecting each other should be what it’s about. As I pointed out there are zealots, those who go too far, push too hard and attack the other, on each side.

We are stronger as a happy and respecting community, then we are as one that has to struggle to feel heard, listened to and respected from within.

TS and TG people can work together if they try, but they should work togethers as individuals seeking comman issues.

I do agree with their assertion that transsexualism is an intersex condition and that presenting it that way to the public is the best strategy for gaining our acceptance.

Monica wrote, “The “Women” Born Transsexuals also forget about the men in our community, because they just don’t seem to understand them. The existence of trans men throws their whole “logic” out the window.”

Yep, you nailed it! Unfortunately, the media tends to ignore us transmen too, so when the public hears the word “transsexual” they automatically think of a transwoman. I’ve heard from other guys that some state policies were designed entirely with the ladies in mind and require transmen to get a vaginoplasty in order to obtain a legal gender change!

Anyway, it really is a shame that some in our community are such elitist snobs. We would all be better off if they just moved on like Susan did.