Comments on: Men in Dresses? In the Military? I don’t &#@!* think so! http://www.monicahelms.com/blog/veterans/men-in-dresses-in-the-military-i-don%e2%80%99t-think-so.htm Going where no blog has gone before. Fri, 21 May 2010 00:53:03 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Josephine Shaffer http://www.monicahelms.com/blog/veterans/men-in-dresses-in-the-military-i-don%e2%80%99t-think-so.htm/comment-page-1#comment-44306 Josephine Shaffer Sun, 19 Apr 2009 21:15:16 +0000 http://www.monicahelms.com/blog/?p=545#comment-44306 Men should be able to wear a dress when ever, and where ever he chooses i want to wear a dress too. Men should be able to wear a dress when ever, and where ever he chooses i want to wear a dress too.

]]> By: erleclaire http://www.monicahelms.com/blog/veterans/men-in-dresses-in-the-military-i-don%e2%80%99t-think-so.htm/comment-page-1#comment-38214 erleclaire Sun, 22 Mar 2009 13:19:59 +0000 http://www.monicahelms.com/blog/?p=545#comment-38214 Firstly, it should be noted that according to the U.S. Army EEO Office and TRADOC in 2005, I am the first person to openly transition on an Army Post. That experience makes for a very interesting and painfully colored picture of the bias and bigotry within the military. Secondly, it should be understood that the military like all of society is spectrum comprised of the best and the worst of humans. It, however, is also steeped in tradition and customs that are often vulgar and low level in practice. By nature the military executes its Warfighter practices at the most base of character and animal fashion. That is important to understand. I agree that the blog expresses anger, but “rightfully” so if you consider the fixed nature of the military, the ignorance maintained by the administration (most of the assholes are still seated), and the GLB’s dismissive attitude. Even many Transgender are as well biased and treat the greater issues wrongfully so as to have their way. I am afraid that the blood of many Trans - Sisters and Brothers will continue to be shed. It should not be so. Dialog does not exist because there is bias and hate from both sides of the issues. It is no less an abridgement of free speech to censor for political correctness, than it is to press disinformation. As long as the bias also includes GLBt politically correct and narrow vision, discrimination against the Transgender will continue. Firstly, it should be noted that according to the U.S. Army EEO Office and TRADOC in 2005, I am the first person to openly transition on an Army Post. That experience makes for a very interesting and painfully colored picture of the bias and bigotry within the military. Secondly, it should be understood that the military like all of society is spectrum comprised of the best and the worst of humans. It, however, is also steeped in tradition and customs that are often vulgar and low level in practice. By nature the military executes its Warfighter practices at the most base of character and animal fashion. That is important to understand.

I agree that the blog expresses anger, but “rightfully” so if you consider the fixed nature of the military, the ignorance maintained by the administration (most of the assholes are still seated), and the GLB’s dismissive attitude. Even many Transgender are as well biased and treat the greater issues wrongfully so as to have their way. I am afraid that the blood of many Trans – Sisters and Brothers will continue to be shed. It should not be so. Dialog does not exist because there is bias and hate from both sides of the issues. It is no less an abridgement of free speech to censor for political correctness, than it is to press disinformation. As long as the bias also includes GLBt politically correct and narrow vision, discrimination against the Transgender will continue.

]]> By: JamieAIA http://www.monicahelms.com/blog/veterans/men-in-dresses-in-the-military-i-don%e2%80%99t-think-so.htm/comment-page-1#comment-38139 JamieAIA Sun, 22 Mar 2009 02:50:47 +0000 http://www.monicahelms.com/blog/?p=545#comment-38139 Wow! The author seems to be lashing out at everyone including the G.& L.s. Just what the anti-trans camp wants to rally their troops against us........a "national securtity" issue to scare their agenda into the minds of America. Ms. Helms, I suggest you pick your fights a little more carfully. The trans community isn't ready to take on the military. Sorry, but that's reality if we like it or not. Wow! The author seems to be lashing out at everyone including the G.& L.s. Just what the anti-trans camp wants to rally their troops against us……..a “national securtity” issue to scare their agenda into the minds of America.

Ms. Helms, I suggest you pick your fights a little more carfully. The trans community isn’t ready to take on the military. Sorry, but that’s reality if we like it or not.

]]> By: Judith Bienvenu http://www.monicahelms.com/blog/veterans/men-in-dresses-in-the-military-i-don%e2%80%99t-think-so.htm/comment-page-1#comment-38113 Judith Bienvenu Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:23:38 +0000 http://www.monicahelms.com/blog/?p=545#comment-38113 Hi Monica, Now, you know me. You know I'm trans (going full time this summer - yay!). You also know that, although I'm not a veteran, I was raised in an Air Force family, and I've spent my entire professional career, since '81, working for defense contractors. I spent 13 years designing battle management systems for Star Wars. (opening for snide comments left for whoever wants them... ;-) I want to talk about your points that I agree with, and then offer some other views on some of these points. I completely agree with the whole "men in dresses" crap. It's the same crap that the right wing tried to pull in Maryland "you'll have men in dresses in the bathroom with your daughter!" Oh please. Kids are in much more peril from a right wing evangelist preacher than a transsexual (check the statistics...). When I read your blog up there, it seems like you're talking about 2 separate issues - whether the military should allow folks to transition in the force, and the LGB v T schism we seem to have going. I'll talk about the 2nd one, briefly, first. I'm not really sure why our LGBT community seems to divide up into smaller and smaller groups. In Baltimore a couple of weeks ago, 2 lesbians beat up a couple of FtMs at a lesbian bar. I've seen trans groups get very exclusive - one won't let folks in unless they're bound and determined to have every surgery in the book, and the another kicks folks out if they're CD then decide to go full time. I've heard folks say, even of themselves "oh, I'm only a CD" -- "only" ? As if they're relegating themselves to being 2nd or 3rd class citizens. It's not like all of us don't have enough enemies, what the heck is going on that we have to look at each other and denigrate this group or that group because they're not the same as us? If we can understand why subgroups within LGBT don't like each other, maybe we'll get some vision into why the straight world and the BAs don't like us as well. So, I'm just posing that question - I have no idea what the answer is. On transitioning in the military: I have friends, gay friends, who were incredibly enthusiastic members of the reserve, and just got back and headed up to MA to marry their partner. I have made wonderful friendships with the military folk I've worked with over my career. I want to make it very clear that I have an immense amount of respect for our military and the vast majority of the folks in our armed forces. However, there are some real assholes out there. My ex-brother-in-law, for example. He still believed that letting women into the Armed Forces was the biggest mistake ever made. And he was an officer. I have no doubt that if he knew there was some gay guy in his unit, he'd look the other way if the guy got beat up. Or killed. And he'd laugh about it later. I want to make it clear here that I'm not arguing about whether trans folks should have the right to be in the military. I agree with you, they should have that right. However, if I'm the commander of some unit, and I know there are severely homophobic people in my unit, is it fair to the trans person to have them in my unit, where I probably won't be able to physically protect them 24/7? Regardless of how good the trans' persons skills are, is it worth having the homophobes creating dissent and discord, and a dangerous situation for the trans person? I guess I'm arguing the "unit cohesion" argument, but from a different angle. If I was the commander, and I was like "oh sure, it's great, come transfer to my unit" and my subordinates off this poor person, how would I feel? I really agree with you, very strongly, LGBT folks should have the legal right to be in the military. I'm not sure it's a safe place to be, all the time. And I don't understand why we, a minority, insist on splitting ourselves up into smaller and smaller minorities (LGB v T, then the T's split up into TSs vs CDs... what's next?) and keep fighting. Sometimes I wonder whether we'll do ourselves in without help from the right wing. Again, thanks for all you've done, and will continue to do. I hope I don't get too flamed for this - however, I just have questions. maybe more discussion will help. cheers Jude Hi Monica,
Now, you know me. You know I’m trans (going full time this summer – yay!). You also know that, although I’m not a veteran, I was raised in an Air Force family, and I’ve spent my entire professional career, since ‘81, working for defense contractors. I spent 13 years designing battle management systems for Star Wars. (opening for snide comments left for whoever wants them… ;-)

I want to talk about your points that I agree with, and then offer some other views on some of these points.

I completely agree with the whole “men in dresses” crap. It’s the same crap that the right wing tried to pull in Maryland “you’ll have men in dresses in the bathroom with your daughter!” Oh please. Kids are in much more peril from a right wing evangelist preacher than a transsexual (check the statistics…).

When I read your blog up there, it seems like you’re talking about 2 separate issues – whether the military should allow folks to transition in the force, and the LGB v T schism we seem to have going. I’ll talk about the 2nd one, briefly, first.

I’m not really sure why our LGBT community seems to divide up into smaller and smaller groups. In Baltimore a couple of weeks ago, 2 lesbians beat up a couple of FtMs at a lesbian bar. I’ve seen trans groups get very exclusive – one won’t let folks in unless they’re bound and determined to have every surgery in the book, and the another kicks folks out if they’re CD then decide to go full time. I’ve heard folks say, even of themselves “oh, I’m only a CD” — “only” ? As if they’re relegating themselves to being 2nd or 3rd class citizens. It’s not like all of us don’t have enough enemies, what the heck is going on that we have to look at each other and denigrate this group or that group because they’re not the same as us? If we can understand why subgroups within LGBT don’t like each other, maybe we’ll get some vision into why the straight world and the BAs don’t like us as well.
So, I’m just posing that question – I have no idea what the answer is.

On transitioning in the military: I have friends, gay friends, who were incredibly enthusiastic members of the reserve, and just got back and headed up to MA to marry their partner. I have made wonderful friendships with the military folk I’ve worked with over my career. I want to make it very clear that I have an immense amount of respect for our military and the vast majority of the folks in our armed forces.
However, there are some real assholes out there. My ex-brother-in-law, for example. He still believed that letting women into the Armed Forces was the biggest mistake ever made. And he was an officer. I have no doubt that if he knew there was some gay guy in his unit, he’d look the other way if the guy got beat up. Or killed. And he’d laugh about it later.

I want to make it clear here that I’m not arguing about whether trans folks should have the right to be in the military. I agree with you, they should have that right. However, if I’m the commander of some unit, and I know there are severely homophobic people in my unit, is it fair to the trans person to have them in my unit, where I probably won’t be able to physically protect them 24/7? Regardless of how good the trans’ persons skills are, is it worth having the homophobes creating dissent and discord, and a dangerous situation for the trans person? I guess I’m arguing the “unit cohesion” argument, but from a different angle. If I was the commander, and I was like “oh sure, it’s great, come transfer to my unit” and my subordinates off this poor person, how would I feel?

I really agree with you, very strongly, LGBT folks should have the legal right to be in the military. I’m not sure it’s a safe place to be, all the time. And I don’t understand why we, a minority, insist on splitting ourselves up into smaller and smaller minorities (LGB v T, then the T’s split up into TSs vs CDs… what’s next?) and keep fighting. Sometimes I wonder whether we’ll do ourselves in without help from the right wing.

Again, thanks for all you’ve done, and will continue to do. I hope I don’t get too flamed for this – however, I just have questions. maybe more discussion will help.

cheers
Jude

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